Thursday, April 10, 2008

Been A Long Time

Share your thoughts.

1. Jacob wrestled with G-d. What does it man to wrestle with G-d? Is that something we're supposed to do? When have you wrestled with G-d?

2. Some teenagers lost friends in a tragic car accident (Rachmana Litzlan) and they told their rabbi that they weren't going to the synagogue for the high holidays because they were too angry at G-d. Their rabbi told them to go to Shul and to bring their anger in with them. Are we allowed to be angry at G-d? May we bring G-d directed anger into Shul?

3. When we say we're angry at G-d, what else might we mean? When we say we're angry at someone, what else might that mean? The rabbis say there are 4 categories of anger in terms of how strong and long people's anger's are. They do not list a category of never being angry, nor do they list a category of always being angry? Do you think these categories should be included in that list?

4. To what extent do people consciously change? At a certain point is it not worth trying? Is it normal to reach an age or stage in life and then coast or freeze in that place? Does being spiritual or religious or Orthodox or any other such label address this question?

5. The word Tzibur - some say - stands for Tzadikim, Beinonim, and Reshaim hinting that a community is comprised of all types of people - righteous, average, and the opposite of righteous. What does this mean to you? What feelings does it bring up? Is it OK to not be a Tzadik? Can it be that people's categories change over time, eb and flow?

6. What is your definition of an intellectual? What other definitions can you imagine? Do you ever discuss man having free will versus G-d controlling everything? Did you ever write a paper or give a lecture on this topic? Do you think there are people who stay up all night talking about these types of questions but never publish or present about them? Do you think there are people who research and present about these topics but don't speak about them much in a natural way in their lives?

7. What do you wish most for people to think or say about you? In your life? After 120? Do you what people think about you matters. In Avot it says that if the spirit of people rests well with a person then so does the spirit of G-d? Discuss the complexities of that rule.

8. Mesillat Yesharim opens with the question of what a person's purpose is in this world? What do you think? Do you know what he says, and what do you think of that?

9. The rabbis say thee are 3 pillars of the word: Torah, Avodah, and Gemilut Chasadim. Does calling them pillars imply they're each equally important? Do you see them as equal? How do connections to these values reflect upon a person's religiosity?

10. Rav Yisrael Salanter said it's harder to change one trait than to learn all of Shas? What do you take from those words? If you follow the thought through to its natural conclusion, what might be the implication?

11. Someone was once telling a friend about a difficult experience and ended by saying - "in the end it was OK" And the friend asked, "Well, what if it wasn't OK?" Are you OK with things not being OK? Discuss the difference between things not being OK because of your choices or due to circumstances beyond your control.

7 Comments:

Blogger kishke said...

Jacob wrestled with an angel, not with God Himself.

Angry at God? It just doesn't compute. You mean angry you were created? Given life? Sustained? What?

April 10, 2008 at 9:55 AM  
Blogger torontopearl said...

re. # 7: I would like to think that people will say that I was kind (thanks; I know you've already said that of me before) and compassionate, that I had a good heart and a conscience; that I loved the people around me and they loved me in turn; that I had a quirky view of the world that translated well into my writing...that I was simply a good and nice person whom they wish they would've taken the time to get to know better.

April 10, 2008 at 10:01 AM  
Blogger Jack Steiner said...

I understand anger at God. There are times when I have been furious. It the stereotypical anger in which you look at some "innocent" loved one who is dying of some terrible disease while people like Charles Manson are given many years of life.

April 10, 2008 at 4:32 PM  
Blogger Unknown said...

Regarding anger and G-d: The late Giles Milhaven, a former Jesuit priest and Brown U professor who was also my friend, taught courses in the religious studies department about anger. He wrote a book, "Good Anger," that might interest you.

I have been angry at G-d, like the teens who lost a friend in an accident, and for similar reasons. But I concluded my anger was misdirected, and that, I think, is the bottom line. As His creations, we humans have free will - a gift and a curse. Being angry at G-d seems to me now to be too literal and limited a concept, as if He is a puppeteer pulling our strings.

Sometimes it's hard to know what to do with the anger we feel when random events cause tragedy and havoc. I have no answer for that one.

April 10, 2008 at 5:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe each person is righteous, evil and average. Sometimes all in one day. Anger is often stirred because love is expected, but not received. So anger implies love, if only by its absence. If anger is seeking love, then yes, by all means bring it to G-d.

April 10, 2008 at 10:34 PM  
Blogger rabbi neil fleischmann said...

I am so gratified to have stirred up feeling and thought. I thank you each for what you've cntributed.

Last night I was so tired, ready to crash, just like now but 24 hours earlier and some bug got into me and those questions came out.

I can't thank you each enough for taking in my questions. Here I am again now - feeling like I have no strength but to go to sleep. And so I am opting not to comment on each comment just now. And yet. I may get the bug to vent and post whatever may flow...

April 10, 2008 at 11:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"who can assend the mountain of hashem and who can remain standing in that holy place" Psalms.
we need to grow, but we may rest too.

April 17, 2008 at 9:11 AM  

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